Feb 062011
 

by Anura Guruge

Of the 201 cardinals alive, 138 [69%] were created by John Paul II (#265).

On February 6, 2011 one of these John Paul II cardinals, the Filipino, Ricardo Jamin Vidal turned 80 and became a non-elector. When this happened, the 138 John Paul II cardinals became evenly split between electors and non-electors, 69 each. This will change again in 6 days when another John Paul creation becomes a non-elector. Then it would be 68 electors, 70 non-electors.

Currently, until February 12, there are 119 electors — 69 John Paul II creations and the rest, 50, created by Benedict XVI (#266).

The full statistics of the College of Cardinals is listed here.

  14 Responses to “Number Of Living Cardinals Created by John Paul II Evenly Split Between Electors and Non-Electors”

  1. No rewards or prizes for whoever guesses when the number of cardinal electors created by BXVI exceeds that of JPII. ūüėČ

    Should that happen, perhaps the College will start to wonder if they should elect someone who was created Cardinal by JPII or BXVI when the next conclave arrives. I myself wonder, if a Pope creates someone a Cardinal, does that mean that new Cardinal has to share his views, etc. And both JPII and BXVI are different people with different personalities.

    Pope Paul VI did not see that 3 of his immediate successors were all created Cardinals by him. JPII may have reigned 27 years but after the next 5 years (2016) there may not be many of his handpicked Cardinals left.

  2. Sean,
    Did you factor in that Cardinal Ratzinger MAY have had a hand in nominating some of the hand-picked cardinals created by John Paul II? Just a thought.
    Thanks. Cheers.

  3. Pope Paul VI made a conscious efffort to appoint a variety of people to the College of Cardinals. The college was, in my view, much more widely representative of views among bishop than was the case under John Paul II. Even so, it is very difficult to ensure the succession. Pius IX had nominated almost all the cardinals who took part in the conclave of 1878, and yet they chose Cardinal Pecci who became Leo XIII, a very different person with very much more open attitude than Pius IX. It is also hard to find someone who agrees with you on everything, and sometimes election sets a man free to pursue his own ideas. I would think that Cardinal Ratzinger was certainly in a position to propose names to John Paul II. We can see Benedict XVI’s pontificate as a continuation of his predecessors, although with obvious differences of style and emphasis. When the next conclave comes I wonder whether “more of the same” will carry the day. There are certainly problems that will need to be faced. There are quite a number of decisions that will have to be faced.

  4. I am too distracted right now … with Father Anthony … scrambling my already scrambled brain by trying to confuse me as to whether Benedict XVI was elected per God’s will or not.
    Plus, there is the whole issue about Saints … that I just asked Father Anthony about. Given that I have heard you are a ‘Saint’ you probably know the answer. If John Paul II is to be a Saint … did he IMMEDIATELY go to heaven to be with God … on April 2, 2005.
    If so, wouldn’t he, have chatted with God about who should be elected at the conclave?
    Well, I did find one, irrefutable similarity … per YOUR request … as to the choice of cardinals by the two popes. As far as I KNOW … and again YOU may … given all your contacts … tell me different … all of the cardinals have been males … right? Don’t even raise the lid on the issue of the Sedes Stercoraria. I already CRACKED that … and it AMAZED me that it took ME to crack that old chestnut. Yes, of course, YOU have already read it … right? Again, I bow, deeply, to your expertise, BUT there are no checks on priests, deacons or cardinals … right?
    OK.
    I have to go. Brain is addled by Father Anthony’s efforts to tell me that if this pope resigns … that is A-OK … does NOT in anyway reflect on God. Thank God, I still have some red wine left in my glass. Cheers.

  5. I’m sorry, but cardinal Vincente was created in 2006 by Benedict XVI.
    Ruini will be next created by JPII , who will turn 80.

  6. Did I mention Vincente … recently … actually EVER?
    I can’t recall … but that is par for the course these days … most days I can’t even remember WHETHER I woke up or whether I am doing this in my sleep.
    I kind of know that Vincente was a Benedict creation.
    I did PUT a list on Nov. 2, 2010 of how the cardinals will age over the next two years … and in there I do show (per my master Excel spreadsheet) … Vincente … with a GREEN ‘B16’.
    IF I said otherwise recently … I am sorry. I didn’t mean to. My already ADDLED brain is even MORE scrambled with all of the recent talk about God’s will etc.
    Thank YOU.

  7. Dear Father Peter,
    While I know that most Catholics, including Catholic clerics, have never bothered to read … let alone STUDY … UDG … you probably know it even better than I do and it is the ONE TEXT that I can claim I have read over 100 times!
    Father, YOU must know that John Paul II/Cardinal Ratzinger mention the HOLY SPIRIT, EXPLICITLY, 4 times in UDG … Preamble para 7 & 10, clause #50 and #85.
    In #50, as YOU KNOW, it says: and invoking the assistance of the Holy Spirit.
    Father, Father Anthony, of late, has established quite conclusively that I am clueless and very simple minded when it comes to these matters … and maybe even you have said the same. But, TO ME, in my simplistic, rather innocent way of thinking, the Holy Spirit must have a special relationship with the POPE … HAS to … the Pope (and I know that YOU don’t subscribe to this) is Christ’s SUBSTITUTE on earth. So where as I do NOT, ever, expect God to waste his precious time on me, I fervently trust that the Holy Spirit always has a ear open to the pope and my implication to the cardinals … the pope’s advisers. I also TRUST that God knows when there is a sede vacante. Now, per UDG, the cardinal electors, at the Vatican no less, INVOKE the assistance of the Holy Spirit. I think the Holy Spirit would NOT let them down.
    ********
    Father, as for your statements about … obscure circumstances … maybe they are obscure to you, BUT not to God! I am ALSO very perturbed that Father Anthony yesterday APPEARED to be JUDGING past popes. I thought that popes can ONLY be judged by God. For Father Anthony to talk about the actions of past popes. How do WE know that that pope was not following guidance from God.
    ********
    Father, this is WHY today … I have thrown my full support behind dear, Cardinal Lord Antonio Canizares Llovera to be the next Pope.
    Father, I do LIKE your pull the name out of a hat suggestion. BUT, I really do NOT think it is necessary. BUT, I could be wrong. The way I see it, per UDG … preamble 10 … the Holy Spirit ALREADY has all the freedom of movement necessary to make sure that the NEXT POPE … will be my new Lord … Antonio Canizares Llovera.
    Now I need to go start thinking of names for Lord Canizares Llovera. Alexander IX and with this pope, thank God, nobody will have the kahunas to say ANYTHING about that choice of name … and I will support ANY NAME be picks.
    Antonio Canizares Llovera for POPE.
    Google it. I have already used my Google skills to get it well seeded.
    Antonio Canizares Llovera for POPE.
    Back to the roots.
    *******
    Thank YOU, Father. All the best.

  8. Well, I guess it must be my Indian background … THANK GOD. Didn’t I already recognize YOU as a LIVING Saint, yesterday?

  9. Irony comes naturally to me, so, often I can’t differentiate, ironically, between irony and reality … my life being ironic in so many senses of the word. But, rest assured, I did NOT in any way mean to distress YOU. You know that by now. The last FEW days have been VERY, VERY difficult for me. Everything I hold dear is being thrown into disarray. So, I am NOT sure what is ironic and what is not. So, please don’t abandon me. There is a LOT more I am hoping you would say.
    I am still waiting for clarification of my question last night that God does not coerce. ‘Coerce,’ though only 6 letters, was a big word for me. I had to look it up. I don’t have access to a real good dictionary, just one online. It says: ‘to compel by force, intimidation, or authority, especially without regard for individual desire or volition …’ Father, I am not sure about YOU … but as a acknowledged sinner all this talk that I will immediately go to hell INTIMIDATES me like you would not believe. So, I feel, to use your word ‘coerced.’ YOU have been a bad boy, YOU are going to HELL. To me, pretty scary stuff. I am sorry. I won’t say anything more. I guess I am just getting myself into trouble.
    Anyway, THANK YOU father. All the best. Good BYE.
    Cheers.

  10. Hi Anura,

    No I have not considered, but it is an interesting case. Nobody knows. But if BXVI did have a hand, he will also influence JPII to choose cardinals who may be his ‘allies’ or ‘friends’ who may vote for him in the conclave of 2005. And it makes you wonder if BXVI could do it, any cardinal can influence him to gather support for the next conclave. That is some more possible Vatican secrets for you. ūüėČ

  11. Following the above post, if any cardinal who is close to the Pope and is actually the ‘power behind the throne’ can influence him to choose his friends as cardinals, then it is not really a Papal Conclave anymore, but more like a gathering of support among several blocs.

    The 2005 Conclave is also very short, so it makes you wonder if BXVI manage to get enough votes very quickly because most of the Cardinals who voted for him are his allies or friends. Bergoglio or not, it seems there is no serious challenge to him. Again, we don’t know what exactly happens in the Conclave.

  12. Sean,
    That Cardinal Ratzinger was very close to John Paul II and was his enforcer of doctrine was never a secret. Doctrinal purity and conformity was very dear to John Paul II. Again, not a secret. Under John Paul II prospective bishops and cardinals were VETTED to make sure that they had toed the line when it came to ‘doctrine’ — in particular clerical celibacy, women priests, abortion, birth control etc. Before their names would be put forward for consideration they would be asked to sign an affidavit that they had toed the line and INTENDED to toe the line.
    There are indications that Cardinal Ratzinger was not hell-bent on becoming pope. He was past 75 and had enjoyed a very long, time at the top in Rome. So, I am not sure that he ever tried to position himself to be the next pope … at least not after he turned 75. He did have some health issues and it does appear he would have been quite happy to retire to Germany. With all the books he had written, a cardinal since 1977, Dean as of 2002 (which meant he got two pay checks as a cardinal bishop, one for Velletri-Segni & another for Ostia), a curialist since 1981 … he was very well set, in terms of assets, he could easily have led the German equivalent of the life f Riley without any problems.
    But, given his ‘obedience’ he was NOT going to say ‘NO’ when elected.
    In this case, I really don’t think there was anything amiss. Ratzinger was close to JP II, but there is no indication that either Ratzinger or JP II ‘schemed’ to have Ratzinger elected. JP II, prior to 2002/2003, may have preferred a younger candidate. He was 58 when elected. As has been discussed in this blog, he was already in heaven, with God, by the time the 2005 conclave started. So he knew all. But, I have to think that he MUST have thought that it was kind of funny … he was elected at 58 … his successor is elected at 78. In heaven, from what I know, his limitations on earth due to his illnesses would not apply. So, I can see him with a BIG GRIN on his face, like he was in the 1980s … thinking WOW … 20 years older than me. Way to go Joe … you ol’ ….
    But, I could be wrong.
    Thanks. All the best.

  13. To use an ol’ British expression, which used to be leveled at me … in my youth, ‘He is RIGHT of Thatcher’!

  14. Regular, FAITHFUL readers of this blog are very familiar with my views on Cardinal Lord Antonio Ca√Īizares Llovera since I wrote about him on Sep. 06 and Nov. 19. YOU might know him as ‘Little Ratzinger’ — not to ever be confused with my man, the ‘Tanned Ratzinger.’ Here is the TICKET, Little Ratzinger for Pope, Tanned Ratzinger as Secretary of State and me, as a consultant, to head up the Vatican Press Office (a la Gibbs).
    Of late, I am seeing too many people glibly deviating from the straight and narrow. We have Catholic priests openly talking about popes retiring and saying that that would not in anyway reflect on the HS. It is time for some true authoritative discipline and an end to all this gad fly stuff from the US … like what I saw in my local, free newspaper this morning … about the decision in Philadelphia yesterday.
    If you are still looking for gainful work, I will see if I can put in a kind word to the ‘new’ Secretary of State about sending you as a freelance, ad hoc, lay nuncio to Belfast — possibly reporting to me, at the Press Office, to make sure you don’t go too far astray.

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